TRANSCRIPT

Leaders Journal Ep09: Best Boss Series (Feat. Patterson Yeoh)

*Text taken from YouTube captions*

i see that words i was like wow

it's called yong ren bu yi, yi ren bu yong which means

that

if you decided to work with these people

don't doubt them don't be suspicious of

them

[Music]

all right welcome everybody uh this is

coach jason ho and today we're gonna be

talking about a basketball series and i

have with me patterson so paterson you

wanna introduce yourself a little

hi my name is paterson so uh i'm

currently in the molecular science

industry as a regional marketing manager

for apac

yeah

awesome great

yeah so thank you so much for your time

and sharing certain leadership

qualities and also certain leadership

advice so they say paterson they say

that a great boss is hard to find

difficult to leave and impossible to

forget

right so when we think about this

sometimes we think about the idea that

who are the people we've impacted last

time so we want to be able to understand

that so i'm going to be sharing with you

a little bit of

what

i've interviewed somebody

right and what they say about you

okay all right

so patterson definitely was one of my

most memorable

managers

i worked with him i think five six years

ago it was a long time ago but

um he was actually like the first person

that i've met that i've actually like

been so wow about just because like he

had

like

there was something to him like his work

ethics you know the way that he kind of

supported us as a team um i can't think

of like a really defining moment or

something that stood out just because

the whole experience just working with

him like across the board for one year

was really like exceptional and

i think a few things stood out for me

when i looked back and i kind of like

was thinking about like what made him so

exceptional um and the strongest factor

for me was definitely that level of

trust

like he really really trusted us like

his entire team and he really cared

about us

and i think he made a

really like he had and

um or rather he he did an exceptional

job hiring us so he

trusted in his own you know hiring

process and trusted in the candidates

that he hired and because of which right

he never really once doubted our

abilities he never really micromanaged

us which at that point of time i was

really young in my career and i've been

through a couple of managers so i was so

used to that structure already

unfortunately it's quite traditional

i would say in singapore still

so this was like super liberating and

refreshing like wow i feel like

i'm actually

you know on kind of like the same

playing field as my manager like there

was that high level of autonomy and then

he's like yeah i believe in you you know

just do what you need to do um and

anything i'm just here to support so i

really like that he was definitely like

one of our biggest biggest cheerleaders

like um he was always open to you know

giving us any opportunity

and he wasn't the sort that wanted to

you know step always step into the

limelight he was more than happy to see

people under him

grow and develop and i remember there

was one time where i had a conversation

with him i was like so early in my

career and i'm like i studied marketing

um you hired me for this role i know

it's like pretty events driven but you

know i would love to do a little bit of

marketing here and there if possible

and i can't believe he was he actually

took that conversation you remembered it

and there was like one

incident where he came out with a

marketing initiative and he's like

kalina why don't you do it why don't you

run with it and i was like really i have

no experience and he's like

it's okay i'll help you like you know

like he's there

so

i love how he was like super supportive

and you know he was always the last one

to take credit for anything like he

really enjoys seeing people that he

works with get that credit and shine

but i love it when you know when

push comes to shove and you know if um

we make any mistakes he wasn't shy from

actually always being the first one to

kind of like shoulder the blame like we

don't need him to we didn't expect him

to but he was that he was just that kind

of manager like he really cared for us

as a team and

we really appreciated him for that

um he's definitely very empathetic and

humble you know from the things i've

shared with you um but i think one thing

that just made it so enjoyable working

with him is that really

openness and receptiveness so i felt

safe and comfortable to go to him with

like challenges and problems and i know

that

he is there he's non-judgmental

like

there wasn't going to be any

repercussions and if whatnot like he was

going to kind of stand up for me or give

me some suggestions or constructive

criticism

so i feel like that's really important

like

even to this day um i don't think i've

had a manager that really like was up to

his level of safe space i think that's

really fair so i'm pretty grateful that

i have

found someone that i can connect with on

such a high level um but i think that's

like one thing as a leader you know

creating that safe space that

um very personal

feeling um for your team so that they

see you as

a person a human and there isn't that

kind of gap between you and them and

everyone just feels like you know you're

playing on a level playing field um like

everyone's on the same team and i think

that's just kind of beautiful

patterson i'm super grateful to have you

as a manager and super grateful to have

known you

you've been quite an inspiration and i

know that wherever you go whoever is

lucky to have you as an employee or a

manager you're definitely going to be a

huge asset to any company that you're in

um and i look look up to you honestly as

an inspiration as a manager so thank you

so much for all your guidance thank you

for your friendship and thank you so

much for taking care of me

all right

so that was kalina and she was we were

able to interview one of your

uh

yeah one of the people you led before

what are your thoughts on that

um

it's it's really nice to hear from your

ex colleagues uh about how they feel

because a lot of time you you just be

yourself and you show up to work um

yeah like like

i enjoyed my time working in kalina the

whole team and it felt like a big family

and we have a

goal that is aligned and we work

together it's really nice to hear that

i have positively influenced her

in one way or another yeah

yeah so that's the beautiful thing about

leadership as uh leaders

uh you don't only lead them in that part

but sometimes we play something in them

that they can take along the way to

anywhere that they go so that's

something that you did and you are

really kudos to you so for me as a

leadership coach and um i always want to

figure out like what are you doing

that's so special what do you do that

because you guy uh person honestly i

asked many people you have a best boss

before most of them say no never in my

entire life right so it's very rare

for somebody to say that yes i remember

this guy this one person so i wanted to

hear from you all the way to the start

like how did this

this journey of leadership happened for

you where did it come from and what what

started this whole thing

i think the first time that i actually

was placed in the leadership role was

during my secondary school days

i was i was a prefect and a cca leader

and eventually become a section leader

during my national service days so this

various appointment

has

many great influences on

the legislative styles

and form the ideology of what kind of

leadership i want to be

um

and then this eventually transpired into

account manager i am in the commercial

setting

so i'll just name a few incidents that

until today it's so impactful that i

still remember them

i was in a prefectorial board meeting um

so one teacher actually said something

to us

so in order to lead you surf first

and then actually form a basis like yeah

it's true because you don't you don't

just need you need to serve the people

who you lead as well yeah and then uh

another one was my basketball coach i

remember we were clearly losing this

game

i was very depressed it's like a

the gap between the points is like

i don't know ten thousand miles there's

no way there's no way it's coming back

so we took a break we took a strategy

break yeah um

the coach pulled me one side and he's

like hey patterson hold your hand help

pull your head up high

because your your team is going to draw

energy for you from you yeah and will be

looking out

uh

for you in the court to

uh you know close the gap just if you

are a leader once you think that this is

doing

uh and you display that out yeah

it's fun it's gone

yeah it's gone and then uh when you come

to my ns where i had this conversation

uh with my

uh i recorded inches in singapore right

it's my chain yeah so i was in a

firefighting

department and

it worked along like a whole family so

this injury told me that uh you know as

a leader

your respect are not given although you

have your rank but it has to be earned

so and it's going to be untrue how you

execute your

responsibilities um your compassion to

them

so uh his word was to you know look out

for your own team members and their

well-being

um it could be their personal well-being

it could be at a false level of kind of

well-being

so this this three people this three

person

um

and their words have shaped me to who i

am today yeah

wow really like um a lot of times when i

coach or when i talk to leaders who are

very inspirational like yourself

uh somehow rather they also had

inspirational leaders themselves right

so it's the idea of like um we receive

and then we can give we are able to hear

from other people what their beliefs are

and all that and then we're able to give

so

i just want to hear from you then when

we think about you then now you as a

leader if you boil it down into like

what is there must be some belief or

core

values that you have that is important

to you as a leader and that's why kalina

sorry probably a lot of other people see

it what is that core value that is

almost like your compass that when

you're learning people it's a

combination of things uh so i'll just

name a few so these are the top few uh

core beliefs that i have it's

empowerment trust and respect

um

and also you know it it comes to me that

you know people want to be let not

manage

and and you just go back to your hiring

process so there's a chinese phrase that

came across to me and then i remember i

was reading the book and i highlighted

it

because

i see that word i was like wow

it's called

which means that

if you decided to work with these people

don't doubt them don't be suspicious of

them and i brought that to my hiring

process if i decided to hire this

individual

then this person will have the

empowerment the trust and respect for me

because

i don't want to doubt that i want to

trust in the capability on trust in my

own judgment of hiring them

um

it comes on to a more nitty-gritty thing

like your day-to-day communications and

also accepting responsibility as a

person

uh you know with effective

communications i think you and your team

member can achieve a lot more because if

you if you open up their channels of

communication with no judgement as a

safe harbor where they can speak to

their leader freely about their problems

or the success that they have and then

you can take back and celebrate the

success because

uh you know they clearly did a good job

and there's something to learn from uh

if we make a mistake we showed the

mistake together and i think it boils

down to be able to communicate

effectively

uh and also you know as a leader you

need to

accept

accountabilities you

you there's days that

uh certain campaigns not run as well

do you want to go and you know start

pointing fingers at people uh or you

know hide in one corner and feel sorry

for yourself

but not that uh i think i would rather

see it as you know uh let's do after

action review uh let's see how we can

evaluate and be better myself and the

team

uh and and you know sometimes it's it's

really uh you know move forward as a

team um i see myself as a bus captain of

that small little department that i work

with

um

and we are all heading to the right

destination so the bus captain has to

know and the bus captain has the

responsibility to drive everyone to the

destination

in the first place why they even get on

board because they want to go to the

destination with you

yeah

awesome i i noticed uh when shelina was

sharing that

uh she was mentioning to you about you

then it's actually quite flat

right i know some leaders is like well

i'm the boss you know i'm your manager

you know you don't talk to me like that

no there's a very big gap you know but i

hear that uh from what you share you

don't really like that is that true or

is it more of like you what is it i i

didn't like to create that kind of

levels uh i see us as working as a whole

team just having different

responsibilities

um and you being a manager you should i

mean in my own in my own opinion

you need to

you know have that communication i go

back to communication again yeah if you

create that distance like i'm a manager

i tell you and this is what you need to

do

um i it's not a way that i want to work

with people

i want them to be able to come back to

me and say hey pat this is wrong

and why is this wrong and i'll be happy

to hear that up over a period of time it

encourages them to freely speak up their

ideas and this is where

new possibilities and greater hearts can

be achieved in my in my experience

because

if

if they feel fearful to speak to you

there could be a better way to do things

uh but we will all we will never find

out

if you if you create that oh i'm a boss

and you need to listen to me i'm a

manager uh but instead if you if you

help them to understand your role is to

do that critical uh weighing of

execution is it to

uh help us achieve the results that we

want to

uh in that way uh that level of playing

field

come in i am your team member now it's

just that my role is to give guidance

and direction

right uh you own that idea

uh if you all set this thing up

you will have the empowerment and the

trust to execute your belief right then

you own that project but whenever you

need help um

you made a roadblock you you have

something that you are not very sure you

you need me to come in and i will come

in again and this time around i'll play

as a leader but not to tell you what to

do but to help you to understand the

challenges that you have and what is the

positive what is the possible

uh solution that we can uh deploy

uh to the challenges you have so it's

more of i see myself more like a like a

doctor you know

uh

a team doctor if you have any illnesses

you'll come to me i can't say i'll give

you a suggestion yeah and it just go

both way we you know yeah it's that kind

of

environment that i prefer to work in

yeah it's like it's a culture i say yeah

i would say a culture environment

but it's very great because um a lot of

times when we think about leadership

sometimes some leaders will say that i

need to make the final say

that's why i'm a leader right i it is

true but sometimes that it's so far to

one side that they don't listen to other

people or they maybe should even worse

shoot them down so from what i hear is

that you're trying to get them as as

because you mentioned one of the most

important things for you is empowerment

you want to empower them so much that

they make that decision that is theirs

and then when they are able to do that

then they feel that hey yeah i have high

level ownership patterson is giving me

this empowerment he's not bringing down

my neck micromanaging and all that so

it's great to be able to see that people

are open because

face it as leaders we need as much

insight and data as possible imagine

everybody is quiet we can't make a

decision yeah yeah yeah

actually that's a perfect example uh

that you have just said um

yeah we want that we run that

communication so you know what is

happening on the ground uh how is your

team members feeling and and that

actually

you know

it has a domino effect if uh if people

are not speaking to each other

so uh you know

if it's a positive news then it has

amplifying effect you know everybody

feel great they're achieving their

results they own the project they are

empowered to you know

uh they want they don't want to be

managed they want to be led so yeah

and then our role is really here to you

know we are like a pathfinder we help

you

eventually make that path towards the

end goal that we all want to be

in our careers or personal goals yeah

yeah so very similar to you i see myself

as a coach right not only coaching my

clients but also in terms of my team as

well hoping that i want to bring out the

best in them because actually we face it

uh their success is also your success

that's correct that's absolutely uh

something that i believe in

the

my team members success will be my my

and my entire team success exactly we

are not

individual

entities we are a group so my job is to

really nurture them uh you know impart

my uh knowledge to them so in order to

help them to grow and doing this growing

journey they also have i believe they

will have self-discovery of oh you know

i can actually achieve greater things i

can actually do this because i i'm new

to this i'm afraid my job is to give

them the assurance don't be afraid take

your first step

anything happen

you know there's someone there to

work with you to find a solution i will

not say i always have the solution but

you have a partner to help you or rather

as a manager you have the resources that

you can you can you can you can get in

to get things done yeah

yeah so some some leaders um some people

see leaders as well first thing uh it's

gonna happen they'll be thrown under the

bus that's it bye-bye right right so the

idea is that um great leaders out there

we take full ownership especially when

it's negative

because it's after all it's us even

though we delegate as us

and when it comes to credit we want to

give it freely

yeah i i

i think i think being able to give

credit to people is uh

it's a privilege itself

i see it as a privilege i like how you

say that yeah

so i i see myself very privileged in a

way whereby i can give credit to my team

members on very good job that they have

done

uh and i want people to recognize that

they have the ability that uh you know

this it could be a they could be a

junior post but they do have very

positive impact in how

organization function

and people need to see that regardless

of your role and your responsibilities

you do shine in your own domain you have

impact of the whole organization and

it's my job as a manager to amplify that

message to a wider community in the same

umbrella of the organization and i felt

privileged to be able to do that

that's something i'll learn i learned

from you something that it is really a

privilege to give credit and to build

other people up right it's always about

that building people up

yeah so paterson um interesting

i it sounds like um it sounds like you

don't have any challenges but i think

all leaders definitely have a lot of

challenges uh that we need to overcome

and and maybe some of those challenges

help to shape you and your leadership

anything that you can you can think

about that comes to mind

the first thing that i actually think

about is uh communication so by nature

as a young boy

i'm an introvert person i'm very quiet

i like to do my own things

so throughout throughout my growing up

when i was placed in various

leadership roles i realized that

communication is key

and if i remain as an introvert person

and not sharing my thoughts um

whether you know is it a a positive

feeling or a negative feeling if i don't

share

nobody will

know

and then you translate into a commercial

setting where if you don't articulate

that vision or

the instructions or

or words

well

you you're effectively not leading

your team because you leave them you

know off a meeting with also our second

guest

yeah so over the period of time uh i

learned that you know uh

communication is key uh in building

relationships we are you know as human

we are hurt animals we want to socialize

and we are we had to give to you know to

be able to speak a certain language

together

um so i worked on it i went on it until

today i i still want it um

and then certain improvement that i did

was to

uh

carefully choose some of the words that

you use

i think words help a lot of impact uh

when you say it very casually yeah the

receiving party may not be receiving

that message or you know decoding

message that the way you want to tell

them true so i i choose so uh i

sometimes do choose what that's more

positive when it's a more negative

setting right uh to help out the spirit

you know and things like this so i think

this is one of my challenges that i have

to uh overcome as a as a person

so you introvert but then you kind of

like found it that it was important to

you speak up and then in the commercial

side you speak up and it's important to

share the vision and help people get

that direction

all right all right and now even there

when you say communication is about

choosing the a little bit more positive

i heard kalina say that you're a little

bit of a cheerleader right helping to

cheer them on towards that goal yeah and

the if i was to if i want to add another

thing on it was really balancing your

vision and the execution

yes um

so a lot of time you have a vision or a

a goal that you need to achieve a kpi

that you need to achieve but

how as a leader to be not overwhelmed by

deadlines and find

time in between for everyone to catch a

breeder

uh to take a step back

so you're not driving everyone down the

cliff so to speak but you you need them

to understand yes we are all

meeting a timeline you need to have the

assurance that you need to give your

team members the assurance that you

we can all achieve this thing on time

and we can deliver the results maybe at

the back of our mind you'll be like oh

no you know we are really short time but

yeah with better organization and

communication there will be pockets of

time that you can you know bring

everyone out and say let's go down to

the coffee shop downstairs let's have a

let's talk about let's talk about things

let's not talk about let's talk about

something that we are happy let's talk

about how we want to celebrate after the

project and 15 minutes and then we come

back and then we continue to work so to

me it's really balancing achieving goals

and you know in between that that work

the pipeline of execution

yeah

yeah you made a very interesting point

it's a point that i always uh

share with leaders that i coach

as a leader there are two main things we

always balance results that means kpi

and all that yeah and relationships yeah

yeah so the relationships are the ones

of how people feel about you why people

want to stay what do they do they feel

that you care so that's all the

relationships part and we need to

balance both if you go too much on a one

um things will go south right things can

go negative if you go too much onto

relationships

then maybe work doesn't get done so it's

really the balance and

it's i think as leaders we are always

balancing that sometimes we need a push

but sometimes we know that oh we push

too hard maybe we need to go here and

have a copy ping downstairs yeah yeah

yeah that's that that's the way i see it

as well

fantastic yes so

um it seems like you are very um um

you're quite happy and i see that you're

quite fulfilled as being a leader and

all that uh but what do you of all the

things you do you find

meaningful fulfilling uh being in a role

as a leader what what do you find

what do you really find most fulfilling

i i find i find it extremely fulfilling

when i get to know

that i have played a part in positively

impacting uh someone else's life it

could be yeah it could be how i uh you

know show them certain qualities

and eventually they lead with that

quality and it positively impact their

own team members now

so it feels like passing a patent you

see

it's like i passed that payton to you

and then you know you you pass that on

to someone else and we are all grooming

different generation of people yes and

it's nice and fulfilling fulfilling to

me that

uh i have play that part in impacting

someone else's life in a very positive

manner

yeah

great i mean when i when i think about

this i personally always reflect on

uh this idea of impact and legacy

right there many things you cannot

there's almost nothing you can bring

outside outside this world after you

pass on right a little bit more bit but

when we think about like

really impact is the idea of like what

legacy do you have what fire do you put

in somebody else's life that carries on

even after you're gone it carries on and

it does pass on same as the negative

side if they have a really bad boss

they might treat other people badly and

then it just keeps going on everybody's

trying to snuff out that fire

but it's great to hear that leaders like

you are trying to light that fire so

that there's a little bit more hope

there's a hope that uh we can lead in a

way that's high results and yet high

relationships as well

yeah

yeah

thank you so if there's if there's

something that um because this is really

um

for the audience of leaders and the

leaders out there there always got

thousands and thousands of books out

there to read right about oh this is the

kind of leadership style this is the

kind of legitimate style if there's one

or two different things that you want to

give as your advice or something that

you really want to share what is one

piece of advice that you want to

leave the leaders out there

i think the overarching message for me

will be to lead the way you like to be

led and to lead with compassion

uh with that being said i think it's

worth taking time to learn about the

people that you work with that you

manage

or you know to that you need

uh and show them that you truly care

about uh their belief system and how

they would like things to be to be

worked keep you know to remain open

uh to create that environment where it's

safe

um and to you know to really show them

the respect

not just in terms of good work that's

being done but also their respect

towards their time during working hours

and off working hours yeah uh you know

always be visible to them always be

present we talk about you know what is

impacting now you know although we

always have a vision but uh you know to

to to be present with them like i'm here

with you right now

uh i'm here i'm visible i took my time

off my schedule so we i

we sit down and then we talk about

something uh could be it could be

personal it could be could be something

that is bothering that you're bothering

your employees

um

as simple as that i i would say an

example like uh maybe you have a team

members that

is uh going through a very difficult

period of time and you kind of learn

that

uh how in your own uh ability you help

them to you know

help them to go through this period of

difficult time

by adjusting some of their job scopes

and things like this um

because you you know this is just

passing phase passing strong

but you don't want to start

you know

putting roadblocks in front of them

right you rather you help them to clear

the world

yeah yeah yeah

medicine sounds as if that a lot of the

advice you give it's really the idea of

just being a better human being

right

right we want to respect each other we

want to get to know each other we want

to know that

when people work um in our team it's not

just that they're robots and all that

there are people who

they have emotions their family problems

and all that and as a leader we're there

for them

good friend yeah yeah absolutely correct

i think i think it's you it's respect is

very important to to one and two another

uh and respect come in many forms yeah

and it's usually you know translate

through actions and verbal language

yeah

all right this has been so enjoyable

learning from you as a leader thank you

so much paterson so

for those in the audience if you want to

hear more about uh best bosses and what

are the different unique things that

they do

stay tuned to this podcast and stay

tuned to the youtube so with that thank

you so much patterson thank you and uh

thank you so much everybody and have a

great day

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