TRANSCRIPT

Leaders Journal EP08: Best Boss Series (Feat. Mr Varma)

*Text taken from YouTube captions*

[Music]

hi everyone this is coach jason ho

and i have with me uh varma and this is

really about the series of best bosses

see the thing about best bosses a great

boss is hard to find

difficult to leave and impossible to

forget

so mr varma just wanna hear from you uh

just introduce yourself a little bit and

what you're doing right now ah yes okay

a nice introduction

your basic panda is too strong

for me i'm i'm basically a mechanical

engineer

do my

master's in nus

then i also apparently before i do

masters i do mba in india in open

industry

so i started

my career

from a small company

where i can perform

and i rose

to a medium company to a corporate

company

so where i became from india small

company where importance is given when i

go to the next stage a medium company a

less importance given when i went to the

corporate company very small and five

percent importance given so the

difference is when i am growing up the

importance become reduced

when i was doing my first job in a small

company i actually i was doing 100

yeah

so so that that is where the leadership

qualities will grow up from the start

you have done something

which is more work in all fields

when we go into the bigger scale we will

reduce our scope of work

right we'll be focusing on things

yeah yeah so that is my experience

before coming to singapore

of course in singapore i only work for

this company

i grew up from in singapore i joined as

an engineer and i became a gm today in

this company oh my experience in sharing

this industry is only one company for

singapore no worries

great great

no problem so i actually have um

somebody has voted you as their best

boss and there's this guy um one of my

friends he's called leon and i want to

share with you uh what uh he shared with

me so i'm just gonna share uh with you

this and it's a very short clip and then

just want to hear it is that ok

ok

i remember uh the time

he saw he's a kind of boss whereby he

always

[Music]

let me freely do uh to learn to let me

do what i want to do and after that he's

always very always creating a very safe

environment for me to um to share and

then to make mistakes and to really

learn from them so he really gave me

that sense that taste of empowerment to

to try and do things but on my own and

gave me that kind of confidence

uh of of how things were and uh and he

always he also goes beyond just like

being

a boss in a way or he's more like a

leader he

tells me

um how to like read the situation how to

you know how to gain those kind of

skills that uh that brought me to

where i was for you know my contracting

engineering

journey

i would say

caring is one of them because he always

um

he

you know he's always very open to when

we share about uh what goes on

in uh

not just in our work life but in our

personal life

so he he never made us feel bad for

sharing with him

how things were

not so much in the sense of

you know for excuse out of work but more

like so you can understand what kind of

person we are better

uh where we are in our stage of life so

you can kind of fine tune um the best

way to

uh you know for us to grow you know

where we are where we were at that time

so you know he's very caring that way he

created a very safe environment

another one i think he's very insightful

i remember uh mr varma always had a lot

of things to say

uh a lot of opinions about things so

he's always got something to say about

somebody about something or about um

a certain situation that we're in

so i found it very meaningful when uh

when he shared those things with me i

always enjoyed those sessions that that

he and i had uh discussing

and um the last definitely would be

empowering so he he also gave a lot of

trust a lot of free play in us so it did

not feel very

very stifling felt very open to be able

to explore and then

play to our strengths and work on our

weaknesses

in that level

mr obama i i really appreciate uh that

our lives uh across

you know and we met

uh especially met me and when i was very

impressionable age and and you know what

you shared with me and what you told me

all those words i really hung onto them

and i hope i lived to the best that i

could

uh that could be a good example uh you

know

of your product but but really very

appreciative of all those years that uh

i worked under you and all those um

uh skills that i

i picked up and i really hope uh

you know

that there can be more of you out there

that i could find out

uh out there so mr rama thanks so much

for for that thank you

all right so that's from leon how do you

feel about that

okay

uh coming to these things

what he was telling

what i feel personally because he has

come as an end

after he finishes the degree

so

basically

an engineer is basically an engineer

whether he's today is doing some other

thing

what i feel is

he finishes degree

is immature

immature in doing any role he's still a

child in a family for his parents no

right for me also when he has come

joined it was like that

so i was seeing the way he was doing it

what he says to you in the video is the

right thing what he say actually

because he is just about to groom and he

does not know what is his place and

minus

okay he did mechanical engineering for

what purpose you do mechanical

engineering he couldn't understand

because as an engineer you study for

you want to know the fundamentals of

engineering then based on the

fundamentals you want to grow in the

management

but is

is so much on the management then on the

engineering

so why you studying engineering when you

don't have the fundamentals you

understand he's more interested on the

general management issues or marketing

something like that no he's a cop he's a

good communicator leon is a good

communicator for him

so for me always i used to try to use

him in the communication skills or

talking to the customers yeah or give

giving my personal because

as a leader for me apart from leon why

they he tells some positive about me is

that

i don't have things anything i tell him

on the straight forward hey you are

lacking you learn the fundamentals first

what you don't know you research

you learn something and explain to me

so let me educate you you have to

educate me it's not that i educate you

you should be stronger in fundamentals

than me you are anxious i did 20 years

before my engineering degree

this is what it becomes like it's not

something like i i was a very bad boss

actually to tell them

i'm basically a servant manager i'm a

facilitating manager i want them to grow

yeah i want them to take place that was

my concept actually so when we are

transparent to them for the younger

students like this yeah they trust on

you

even though we are trying to criticize

them he understands what is the weakness

of him

second thing apart from this

i also tell my personal experience my

personal things apart from the work

so they become like a family people

so tomorrow i i scout at them or i talk

a little bit negatively also they don't

think that i am doing something wrong to

them

not only lyon even my other engineers

after leon left even they operate my

personal things they go to my bank my my

cpa account they do all the things for

me right that was the friendship i

maintain

so so that's why you're styling yeah i

think he he cannot find even elders also

they don't use so much freedom

yeah

they caution his life i can understand

him but i

for me not only lyan anybody is the same

for me right for me i always treat

everybody saying because

my character because leaders are born or

a good managers are born from their

family actually how your parents behave

with you

for school in your time

you you get some

[Music]

good uh

character

characteristic values in your life you

understand yeah so if parents are little

bit

bosses

and they are doing businesses maybe my

nature won't be like this

you understand

because we are born from a conservative

family what we want i want to remove my

conservativeness you understand the

logic yeah i want to be more open

right so that's where the differences

will come from different people

so

for liam as a leader for me i want to

make him understand what he wants it

where he's working this company what is

the level he can reach

right

who the people are requiring this

company how much he can grow so when

your inclusion your objectives are not

to the standard

working the company also no meaning

you understand that it's not that he can

because

he can survive with me as long as i'm

there

but other people talk negative about him

it's bad for him

right right

that was my concept so i always trying

to lead him to the management side

because he was showing more orientation

on that side when compared to the

technical side

right right so that's interesting varma

you mentioned that

you saw him his strengths

and he was a very good communicator

and leon actually said something that

you give him a lot of freedom and

empowerment

right do you actually do you notice

different people have different

strengths and you want to be able to

play to their strengths yes

because we have to lead into that way

because what happens i could not be

selfish doing it he's doing some work

for me just to make his life

miserable in future

we should be knowing new knowledge or we

have to change his life for the next 20

years what he can do am i right yes so

we should always make it make them drive

to do some new things

right right saying he's you should be

smarter than me i'm an old guy

you should know more things yeah because

when i talk to him also because i am

i

am above

a bookworm actually i read many books

you just tell me to read some new book i

want to read it

that is my motivation you understand

right right but similarly i used to tell

him like that what i mean to say read

this technical you google if you find

out what this what is this product you

get me and explain to me so that what i

thought you'll learn and explain to me

instead of i say about the product yeah

so you have to so the way that you lead

him um i think firstly you look at the

strengths you see that he

is a little bit more suited for certain

things rather than technical you want to

grow him in the management second thing

you mentioned was that um

the way that you learn

or you want to teach them is that they

go and learn themselves they go and

learn then they come back and then they

teach you

right why don't you just tell them

oh what happens is that

when we

we tell them

they listen to us because i am the boss

i am the leader in the company is

working for me

i cannot force what i wanted i want them

to have motivated by learning themselves

and they have to come to me this one i

cannot understand can you let me know

then that way when we tell her then it

goes into their mind you understand them

yeah so when they don't have the

interest they're just learning for your

saying no use one

see you learn something for yourself no

not for others

you know

yeah this is the point i was going in

actually not only everybody you see

when compared to leon john is actually a

graduate i had a very successful diploma

holder i just took it from diploma

paulie he is a very good manager now

right

good yeah i think the idea of leaders is

you mentioned sometimes we

grow up in our families

we don't want to be

what our families might be so if they're

very conservative we want to be a bit

more open so we learn from different

places learn from what we don't want

but we also learn from what we want

right we maybe we see somebody doing

something so i just want to ask you mr

varma

when it comes to your own leadership

where did it start was that was there a

manager that you look up to that you saw

or what what influenced your leadership

is it just reading a lot of books

okay

right from childhood for me because i

come from a conservative family

i learned my leadership qualities from

my mother

my mother is

just

1960s she met or studied only primary

one family two in a village right and

she don't have parents basically

at the 10th 10th year it subsides her

parents and she with childhood marriages

she married my father yeah

and she has come with a big family and

15 people in my father's family

see an educated child how we manage

everybody in these 15 people see the

eldest

so

i found without education also by just

common

sense

and in no sensor

also they can be good and manage

everybody

you understand yeah and uh we learn

we learn from the parents suppose my

father

very hard-working yeah but

breadwinner always will be angry am i

right he cannot cope up

but mother

is in a different angle soft corner

different

venus people still won't express this he

may express it separately so you won't

express it

so that things are

i'm observing it from my childhood

but leadership qualities have grown up

but once i studied my engineering my

engineering

i was in small small company what i do i

started with a small small company first

year responsibility small

so that way i learned more things

and once we are in a small very small

company where we try to do

ever out of under the

responsibilities we try to do 95

responsibilities

we learn many things yeah so once we are

learning those things it gives us more

confidence

next job you want to go higher you want

a better salary you want to join in a

better company

our life becomes very easy because the

next job is less scope of work

only first to one year only i work very

hard i'm just telling you the remaining

in my 35 years 34 years i never work

for the first year i work

i feel that was a work for me because

too many unknown things in workplace

but after that one year today you asked

me to doing in any different line of the

company not only this line

i think i'll be successful

right

i am very confident because

i feel i have done every part of life

see even my guys

they cannot talk to me a little bit

negatively why because

if they don't want to do i say okay you

feel it is very hard work for you today

i'll finish the job for you don't worry

it's like that my style

so they are forced to do when i say that

what they'll if i can do it

it's not that i'm doing it but there

yeah

so you tell them that you are you are

willing to do it and then

that's a that's a way of uh how you look

at them okay okay so so one factor you

mentioned was your mother when you learn

the soft skills and where you learn how

to manage people

any other influences you had that made

you

what people call you a best boss

is it books or is it anything else or

other managers

actually

it's a book one thing is apart from that

my family the books i read it okay and

the companies i joined

it's basically it's not that something i

learned from us some see every master of

course we respect the masters the

teachers but for me

first i should have interest and

attitude yes you understand definitely i

should have interesting attitude then we

can learn something

see if i don't have that attitude almost

the mastery society will be average only

am i yes so we should be motivated

we should go in that why i'm getting

negative hey why i'm not able to cope up

like others i should have this

comparison to grow

you understand yeah so this is the way

when i bring it my people example

you took the word of lyon

i always is a graduate here i wanted to

become a professional engineer yes

i i try once you become professional and

then you turn to management side yeah

but somehow he has his business you

don't want to do because he's

interesting not that i can understand

yeah yeah i still push him because he's

still angry still he can do he says i'm

writing exams you can say

yeah you're saying that it's a pe you

know that yeah yeah he's trying that

yeah i want them to at the right angles

itself

to go almost they can just reach right

because once you fought

once you are in 40 years uh you want to

study also you don't study normally to

be more difficult

yeah

so what you said is a very true and i

coach a lot of different leaders and one

thing is always that

you mentioned is that you want to build

them push them in their potential you

see them they can do that and then

you want to push them towards them right

why do you think that it's something

that you feel that yeah i want to see

this potential in you and i want to push

you there

right why do you do that right why not

just leave them where they are

and maybe they're a very good worker for

you but they don't rise up

it's okay for you because you have a

good worker that is in that level why

why do you feel that you need to push

them

because it's a great it's a great

attitude but i just want to hear from

you like what was your thoughts behind

it

i i always i always feel

everybody has to go beyond these limits

yeah okay

behind these limits

so i always never feel that

his knowledge is so less or he's less

because he is not provided or motivated

to do new things

right so i always have the habit of

sharing with people

and they go beyond my reach i have

suppose i know 10 pages i want my junior

to know 15 pages right my nature is like

that because i thought if you know 15

pages you'll teach me five pages extra

you understand the logic yeah and i also

when i have 10 engineers

each each engineer is

skilled in some way

i have 10 people doing different things

i like more

if in 10 people

eight people are doing the same type of

work

i am not enriched

them right all the same

but if they are doing a different

different aspects

and i will be knowing 10 different

aspects it is also enriching me

and i am i'm also trying to upgrade it

with that enrichment to others right

right

so

your own leadership style

you mentioned a lot about this idea of

learning and continually learning never

stop always being curious right and you

feel that

this it could be one of the would it be

one of the core beliefs for your

leadership that means everybody has that

learner student attitude always pushing

themselves yes yes

i feel that is a strong point the number

one point

okay okay

not only work everywhere in every way in

life right or with your friends or

anywhere issued out

that type of thinking nature

right so at least

when you're in different groups when

you're a sheep

you flock the sheep am right yeah

when you're with monkeys you should

flock the monkeys

you understand

so we should have that different aspect

of

groups

where we can grow up

it's not that i want to be like this

if you want to decide you want to be

like this

you cannot definitely cannot travel with

all the 10 groups

when you when you isolate yourself i

want to be like this

you cannot travel with other groups

because you will only find uh

what you are thinking to that group only

you will be inclined always you never

see the other side of the valley

you only see one deep [ __ ] only

so for you it's um the idea of that uh

always open your mind

and be open to different groups

different groups how they think and and

learn from different groups don't just

be narrow-minded and say that there's

only one thing

yeah and so so would you say so that's

one of your core

beliefs that you have as a leader just

want to

hear from you mr varun is there any

other

core values or beliefs that you feel

that's very important to have

as

as you lead people so one you said is

really about the learner's attitude

right is there anything else

um

you should have high ethics

ethics okay

high ethics yeah

that one is uh

you should have

ethics also it should be something like

uh

purity no it's not that business sense

of ethics

right you understand

right explain a little bit in terms of

uh this

i item it's a personal life

a person

personal life ethics

uh whether it is personal life or the

business life

yeah

you are working with the five people

team example i'm just giving an example

yeah

all these five people are having

different capability

yes but you but you think that you are

the smarter than the rest of the four

people

mli

so what you try to do

ethics where comes the ethics you feel

that you are better other people are not

better so i should i should sideline

them

for me this is called epics or jealousy

in ethics what you do when somebody is

you feel that they are inferior too you

have to make enrich them to your level

at least

bring them

but you cannot say you are smarter than

you isolate them let them suffer i want

to grow up leave them back

that type of nature i don't like it

right right you understand so that's why

you should have something purity of

ethics if someone i tell

my colleague

you do like this you just tear off these

two pages or just give him some money or

tell something false to other guy

we are teaching somebody

in business sense it is okay because we

have to do like that too successful all

right

but i don't want to do that

yeah

i just

yeah you want to do why you tell the

false or you tell something untrue i

want to know the reason yeah for

namesake you should never tell you make

it all positive nothing wrong you will

face difficulty for one week the next

week you will be successful why you want

to make it shorter in life right so

ethics is more important in leadership

apart from this learning habit the

second is ethics

the third thing is

discipline

you have to be disciplined

because

just know

because i was

when you're talking i

understand

when i say you got to

everything you should be

everything which we need to accept it

why because

you cannot be addicted to anything in

life

right

you should enjoy everything

but don't don't make it like addiction

right

yeah that should be the concept

you understand

you should do even though it's bad so

for example drinking is there or smoking

is there you want to smoke smoke but

don't make it habit

right

just enjoy it and forget it

what makes you that moment instant happy

after that forget it don't make any

habit because once it becomes a habit

just every time you want to say

something wrong things you always say

wrong things

habit makes see addiction is not only

drugs drinking smoking everything is

addiction you understand

when you

when you want to tell a liar you're

always telling lies only yeah

yeah so i don't want people to come into

that umbrella of addiction

right okay

so so that's this would you say that

it's discipline

yeah

right discipline so okay okay so you

mentioned these three things uh um being

um really a learner uh the other one is

purity of ethics that means if somebody

is

better than you you don't try to push

them down

or you try to you know push them away

you you want to be able to

let them let them grow even better than

you like you said just now right if

people can be better than you that's the

way that you want it

right and then lastly discipline in

terms of um you have to see

your habits right and be very careful

about your habits so those are very very

wise words from you i want to find out

from you so mr varma

when you think about this idea of

challenges you have as a leader

right so what uh maybe one challenge or

two challenges you have um you have oh

you have overcome

um that you feel that shape your

leadership so last time maybe i wasn't

very good in this but once i overcome

that i realized that wow that's a very

important thing for me what challenge

that you face that you have overcome as

a leader that really shape your

leadership from then on

what challenge

okay

for me actually yeah i'm a nature

of a person

there's nothing like challenge for me

okay there is nothing like that because

i am what i say i am little bit uh

contented guy content right

okay whatever i have within that

umbrella yeah see we are all working

class people am i right yeah it's only

i'm one step higher maybe but working

class

the company somebody founded it he has

some policy he's paying your salaries

he's our pay master he has some beliefs

we need to follow the principles yeah

but that principles is

objecting to your ethics you need to

wiser this one i don't like to do which

is up to you you still want me to do can

you keep it somebody for this

responsibility

i'll do this way that is what i do

okay

and what the challenge

it's very difficult to say these type of

votes to the senior people or to the

founders of the company

very difficult

see

but at the same time i also tell my

character what are my strengths and

weakness i'm very transparent we should

be very transparent with our strength

and weakness what we can do what is my

nature what i don't want to do if you

make me involved in that i won't be

doing perfectly well yeah but right

these are the things i am very strong

this

i don't fight for these things

in life

so

that's the biggest the challenge is

i don't want people to

make me do wrong things

right

so how to avoid wrong things that's a

challenge for me

right because the way of telling to my

directors i tell them

because of this act i feel guilty

myself i said i feel guilty you asked me

to do i felt guilty i said to them

this is the words i used to the

directors but i escaped from it they

also and i want them to feel the pain

right

see it's not benefit to me

so as a company they want to do

something yeah

but

i am feeling the guilt

right and this is the first guilt i made

in my life

this is what i wish to say but i can i

don't see them i know you already

understand the logic

okay okay so it's um it's the idea that

when you

so some of the challenges you you have

um as a leader sometimes it's the upper

management and

sometimes they might because of business

and all that there are certain things

that they want you to do but you have

that ethics inside you you feel that um

the way to overcome it is being very

transparent very truthful of how you

feel so that's how you overcome it and

and i think

since the start you've been talking

about this whole idea even leon talks

about it that you're very transparent i

can go to you for almost anything and um

so i it's it kind of like shows me that

that is your style

not only just your leadership style but

who you are as a person you're truthful

to your

memory

yes listen i always feel that

i'm either temporary

hmm am i right i'm here temporary

why i should make permanent

very simple logic but many people 99

percent of the people they think they

are permanent that's the problem

right that's the basic concept actually

you understand this concept is very easy

to immediately move with anybody

right right for my my concept of

thinking

okay great thank you thank you so if i

wanted to um hear from you because as

leaders we

it's sometimes very difficult to manage

people right so a lot of times for

leaders there are two main things one is

the results that we need to have you

know project deadlines and all that but

the other one is also the idea of

relationships

right who do they do they care for you

do you care for them and all that

so when it comes to results and

relationships um i just want to hear

from you

when

for you what is the most fulfilling

thing

as a leader

what do you find so fulfilling as a

leader

ah okay

i have my own thoughts what you say okay

but i cannot do it because i'm working

for somebody am i right

yeah

so just now before this you raise the

voice of challenges

yeah

i had this challenge i'm not successful

in that challenge because i want to

example i just tell you

in any business

you cannot make profits by increasing

the price

profits should be made by efficiency and

productivity

not by increasing the price

right you understand that so any company

is formed with principles and policies

we have some systems

so when you improve these systems you

should make the profit is not that you

increase the price and make profits what

talent do you have

no talent

never right

this is my concept

but

when i talk to my senior people no no we

have to increase the price we are not

making money

but they don't understand where to

improve

all right right so if i ask you like

yeah so that's the challenge you have is

that also the most fulfilling thing for

you yes

exactly

for this one i got to remember because

if and

in that position

i'll definitely do something i improve

it i make more employment

and get profit not by increasing the

price

because

the concept is like that

when you're one man boss one man

employee you do nicely 100

yeah you

you do very effectively when you become

10 people

the effectiveness will reduce by 10

when you become 100 people you're only

performing 10

right

you understand the company that's why

the smaller the company

they are very competitive they can make

some money because one person only

taking the value when you are 100 people

you are not taking 100 profit you are

only taking the 10 percent profit but

100 people sharing your cost becoming

higher you not even get one percent yeah

so how do we improve as an established

company we have to improve the system

efficiencies effectiveness it's not the

price increase oh i have 100 people i

have a big building i have to increase

the price it's not like that that's

something wrong

right right so your greatest fulfillment

yes

this is actually to

um as you lead the people you want to

always improve uh the system

effectiveness and efficiency

and

what you're saying is also when you lead

people

you always want them to know that that's

the best way you want them to how do you

improve the system how think about it

yourself how do you improve the

effectiveness

and and it's almost like that if you see

your team members

uh are able to do that they're able to

improve the system themselves right

effectively that's your great greatest

fulfillment

yes you are right i actually last i

think i'm here i think i suppose

i'm here for the last 22 23 years in the

company

first year only i work i kept telling

you in this country first year i work

because i know everything

right the next 22 years i never work

actually i just come casually i'm

playing something

i i don't feel like work actually you

say challenges

for me it looks like playing only

certain part of life i never consider

this as a work

right right

i never go for uh all these years

i have a headache i have fever i never

go to clinic yeah i went to clinic for

some my injury or something but not for

this normal purpose 90 of the people who

go to the doctor we're going to emcee

because i feel it's playing i never feel

like working

wow interesting

very good um there's a concept uh when

we uh in terms of uh productivity right

if uh if you feel that that it is a game

right you know the work a lot of the

work that you have like for us leaders

there's results and relationships so but

if you feel that it's a game right

you're always learning you're always

trying to find new ways to do different

things you don't feel like work and you

have more creativity and all that

right so okay that's also one thing

another thing i tell my people also

see

you all join the company with your own

which nobody force you to join here it's

it's your will you join the company yeah

so all these small companies what they

do they just give small and lesser money

am i right

that that's what so unless you say money

problem i don't have money these are the

common things we hear from all the

junior people communicating smaller

companies

i just tell them very simple my people

whenever there is issue

you don't worry about your house your

food and all whatever you're earning the

money you give to me

you come to my house and stay i give you

breakfast food lunch a good room to

sleep

you don't worry about it for these

things you don't work

you feel this is difficult for your life

you come to me i'll provide you

so they don't have the answer laughing

laughing

[Laughter]

so i need my people not to worry for

those things

right right right but you you so you

share with them ask them to come to your

house

you don't want it i have a house i'll

provide you you come to my hometown but

they never they never take it up

yeah but you don't have the talent like

other people earning

but you cannot think like them

you should have your own happiness

in life

yeah that's very wise words when it

comes to this whole idea of contentment

and i like what you say about this word

your work you don't you don't see it as

what you see as play

um

and then you see um

life as um even as work as contentment

and find your own happiness and that's a

beautiful thing

um that you share i just wanna i'm very

curious because i'm very sure that you

sometimes tell your team members

certain things that ah mr obama are

saying that again right

what is that one two phrases you always

use

with your team members

okay my especially my team members yeah

actually on all my engineers yeah yeah i

tried to process more than

i tried to criticize

i criticized not only to him in front of

the rest of the 10 people i criticized

hmm

i want them to

understand my criticism to go up

yeah it's not that i'm making them down

right so my criticism is something not

rude to them in a laughing way in a

comedy way

so they they understand it

and even though the next day they repeat

the mistake hey yesterday i told you

today again you are doing the same thing

i make them laugh understand it

right we understand that but right it's

see sometimes what happens we

too much criticism it becomes negative

yes

and people are afraid

to our see to outsiders

it says to pull them down am i right yes

in our moon people we criticize to

improve them yeah

you understand

see my own people are there

in front of you i say leon is good my

rosary is good yeah they are doing well

unless i'll say but in the room i said

you're still not doing well yeah

the same thing in your house it happens

right yes yes

so what you're doing is that um what's

interesting is that um do you find it

difficult to criticize so some people

outside they call it negative feedback

do you find it difficult

no

you do it in a

um a casual

way casual i make them understand why

i'm criticizing

right but do they know

do they know that it's for their own

good

yes

i'll make them understand right because

i want them to repeatedly go my

criticism

then they change

right right right because one day today

we tell they think casual

but every time telling them they should

also understand yeah yeah that's good

that's really good um the idea of

negative feedback or criticism is to

grow people right and as leaders we

shouldn't be afraid to do that right but

but rama there's a lot of people a lot

of leaders are sometimes afraid to give

criticism

right

anything that you want to share with

these leaders that are maybe listening

to this

i i feel

the people

who are thinking like that

they are not good leaders

yeah

they have some self-interest

that's why they behave like that

right okay so for us

see a person

it's not me

a person who does not have his his

personal interests personal agendas in

life

he won't criticize like this

he won't criticize so you you you should

be very open-minded in when you're

talking to somebody or criticizing

because

people should not

they should not uh written your stone

back to you you eat a stone with some

somebody they should not hit you back

you understand

see people hit your back is when you

have personal interest am i right

when you don't have personal interest

they cannot get back to you also right

right open the next secret

right so you feel that those people

leaders that don't give uh feedback uh

negative feedback they probably have

their own interests maybe

um

yeah and it's not really

that they're what they do

they have some interest on somebody else

yeah something like

this

we shouldn't have

yeah singapore is very

people are afraid people kaiser people

am right yeah

normally what happens

they don't make decisions yeah because

they feel they're worried

they're doing something wrong

or somebody will catch me yeah but they

don't understand the logic sense when

you're making a decision a right or

wrong decision yeah

it is not for your personal interest you

should make a decision whether it's a

bad decision also why you worry

you did it for something else objective

purpose

which does not benefit you should not

worry but they are afraid to make this

change

right

this is a common problem this is the

common problem okay okay for me like

that why i i do so many wrong things

maybe i don't know my decision may be

wrong

nothing problem for me because that

decision i never made any personal

interest am i right yeah

so i don't feel anything bad

we learn from their mistakes no that's a

good experience yeah

yeah a very good point also the idea

that um failures that we have is

learning experiences right so one last

thing uh obama one last uh question i

have for you um

if you were if some of the leaders out

there right are listening to this right

what are some

words of advice that you will give you

want to leave with the leaders

what would that be

i want the leader should be as

transparent as possible

so that others are motivated and become

good men in the society not only for the

company where the premises is working

his life should be a very profound

not only working everywhere in life

he said he is going to live for 100

years

he had to be a very

good

being is a good leader for me for me yes

right a human

yes my concept is like that

right

other day i was seeing uh okay i got a

good example

in india

we have one corporate company by name

you might have heard tata tata

very big name

this data is so rich

yeah but actually is a poor man you know

company is rich that the trustees

i think they are very poor people

they are not even so there is recently

one company is called by name infosys

one i.t company

infosys is a very big one of the top

five companies in the world

software companies

is now british written finance minister

if you can see the uk is a finance

minister right so his information is

what his personal asset is 2.4 billion

dollars

this infosys chairman

and tata by person

is not even a quarter of him

but this guy infosystem and go on at the

75 years old so bends and touches his

feet

because for the nobleness not for the

money you understand that yeah

you understand the logic there yeah you

don't have anything because tata's

principles are very wide concept

principles

everything they quit in the society they

don't take personal director's fees that

they don't keep their assets or

cash our bankers on their name all in

the company or in the trust that's why

they have a noble name takas right so i

was surprised when uh the nobility here

this guy is so rich pythons which are

the humor yeah he has to go and touch

his feet

that is something different no people

should be like that so people

resp people respect you for your

nobleness

this is the profound human being

the perfect one the perfect human being

right right so uh your i think when you

share this it helps us to understand as

leaders that

firstly before you lead or before

anybody is a leader we want to be

as an ideal human being as possible

right the best human beings

actually

the secret of because you are in this

line i just tell you yeah the secret of

corporate companies all the big

companies you name in u.s and all yeah

their leaders are very good it's not the

businesses they have they're very highly

ethical and they share their money to

all the under 150 people the core team

all the shares

yeah that's where the companies they

become very bigger and bigger their

product and all their unique products

yeah

in a small company what happens they are

only one or two people are sharing all

the remaining are working like donkeys

yeah so there is no motivation for them

to grow

the corporate the corporate culture is

different they make 100 millionaires now

you see yeah a person has to become a

billionaire

you should make at least 100 people

millionaires

then you are a billionaire but you

become a billionaire with only two

people you're making millionaires no use

one

it won't last for you to three

generations afterwards close show you

right right

the concept should be like that you

should make

somebody to higher and see you make ten

managers uh then i become gm am i right

yeah yeah

yeah so that's ideally

very good very good the idea is that if

you wanna succeed in life you wanna help

other people succeed

that's what you're saying and always try

to build somebody up rather than tear

them down

yes because when you build them up also

it comes back to you

yes

right so that's the thing the second

thing i just tell you okay corporate

companies the policies are in a small

company we take in a medium size of

small companies we are doing some

trainings

what happens is that

normally

the businessman wants to exploit people

it's a common

they just give small business they just

want to do more work this is the concept

i just tell you my example

i started growing but i build up

with

my my nature a wide network in this

singapore in my field yeah you talk from

the authorities my clients conceptually

everybody

like a friend to me um

so even my pay master my doctor don't

want to promote me or they just want me

to do also

for me no problem but because of my

activities my other people it becomes a

social prestige issue just to make me

higher and higher you understand the

logic yeah yeah so how you can change

the people in the company headset their

mindset

right they also feel guilty because

others are thinking something

differently outside world in my my

industry he's forced to move me up you

understand the logic yeah so we as a

worker we should be like that actually

it's not that we do something somebody

will give me some benefit we should not

anticipate

yeah i think by forcefully you should

come

hmm

right

right so it's always so it's almost like

when you share me with me this is the

idea that you're you people know you and

people know you not because um not only

of your work the results part but also

the relationships that you built with

them

and because you are you are striving to

become a better and better human being

um one of the things that i get from you

is to treat people really with respect

and nicely

and the more we do that the more people

um it's almost like karma you know what

you give is what you get

i just told you we are only temporary

yeah how long we'll have all these 30 40

years afterwards we all go

why you want to have people don't

understand this we have jealousies we

want to become

this is all

they understand that there is before

going to die they understand but when

you start at anger days you will be

living your life very happily

very happy

yeah yeah that's why you won't get

young people can learn this from they

won't have headaches and fever

they get attached and people were

thinking they are worried too much all

right all right

all right thank you thank you so much mr

varma um we've learned so much so guys

um if you're listening to this uh um

there's so many different leadership uh

lessons and if i want to summarize the

idea is that to be an ideal

leader we need to be an ideal human

being right and always trying to push

people up

the people that you lead

get them to succeed more because in when

they succeed you succeed more as well so

you've been hearing um this is coach

jason ho this is the leaders journal and

interviewing mr varma as the best boss

and we'll see you in the next episode

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